Roof operation microswitch position drawings

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

(I redid the left & right cable under the boot lid hinges, but not that one that runs under the roof yet).
However, it's a very tricky position, and after cutting open the woven cover, there is a plastic tube through which the cables run (I think different from what Marvin's pictures show, as he mentions to have felt the cable break, and I can only feel the plastic tube) - cutting that all open will cause a mess, do you think it's worth it, or is that unlikely to be the cause?
Cheers!

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

Not sure which cables you mean, but just to paint the picture, I bought the car in September, automatic roof was folding perfect, but the plastic rear window needed replacing. Had that done in November, but then didn't use the roof until the sun came out in March or so - to find it didn't work anymore. Went back to the guys who did the rear window, but ofcourse a bit of a nasty situation as they said 'well that's half a year ago and can't be our mistake'. They did have a quick look at it and pointed the cables in the boot lid, but refused to look at it further.
It could well be that it's a mistake in the connection - if you have any pointers where to look, I'd love to hear.

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:38 pm

No dont cut or open anything yet !!!!
1) Use the VAG-COM to do more checks.
2) try pressing the microswitches and watch how the reading blocks change
3) Look for areas disturbed by others and possibly rewired.
4) Get the meter out and check the microswitches.
5) Get a second opinion from someone like Fast28!!

The microswitches seem to be working but they look back to front to me. Someone maybe had the latch apart and put them back - back to front. I am not sure as I have never had it apart so not sure it that is possible.

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

, do you mean:

?
F200 shows indeed wrong in my block measurings, but in Fast28's 'roof nightmare' post, his VAG shows the same difference (block 1 position 1 is also 0 instead of should be 1, so I'm not sure if that's crucial.

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:49 pm

Not sure which cables you mean, but just to paint the picture, I bought the car in September, automatic roof was folding perfect, but the plastic rear window needed replacing. Had that done in November, but then didn't use the roof until the sun came out in March or so - to find it didn't work anymore. Went back to the guys who did the rear window, but ofcourse a bit of a nasty situation as they said 'well that's half a year ago and can't be our mistake'. They did have a quick look at it and pointed the cables in the boot lid, but refused to look at it further.
It could well be that it's a mistake in the connection - if you have any pointers where to look, I'd love to hear.

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:52 pm

The digit changes as you pull the switch in the central consol. Dont worry about it.(See the table to decode what each digit means). ie. E137

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

Again it could be possible they made a mistake when they redid the window - but it seems unlikely to me for them to get into the latch microswitches for a window repair.
But a wrong connection could well be it. Did you see my question regarding the loose yellow plug in the boot in my first post? You were right btw about the 2nd arm being part of the key lock pushing mechanism, can't believe I didn't suss that one out..

Will try to wiggle the latches with VAG COM listening now.

Cheers!

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

I wish I knew..

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:09 pm

Hold on something funny there . Group 1, block 3, digit 6 is actually the hand brake? (Not E137)

Do some checks on the hand brake. pull it on and off and watch the digit change in VAG-COM.

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:11 pm

I am away to drink some beer... Razz

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

I was curious if there is something with the 3 microswitches in the roof compartment latches, as the first group / first block / first digit, which stands for 'F200 entriegelt' or 'Compartment cover locked right switch 1' which at startup should be 1, but for me is always 0.

Right latch (UK driver side):
all the way up:
01001110 01000100 00000100 1100

halfway down:
01101110 01000100 00000100 1100

all the way down:
10101110 01000100 00000100 1100

Left latch:
all the way up:
10101110 01000100 00000100 1100

halfway down:
10101110 01100100 00000100 1100

all the way down:
10101110 10100100 00000100 1100

Every movement has an effect, looks ok?

I do note however, when I fold down the roof manually, and lift the latches for the compartment lid to sit in, and then pull the central console button 'open', the lid clicks in, and then reads:
---------01111111 00100101 00000100 1100

Then, when I close and open the roof a few times manually until the boot lock opens (stupid as it sounds its the only way) I read
---------10100010 10101010 00000100 1100
shd be:10101010 10101010 00000000 1100 - looks close, apart from the block 1/digit 5 (V53) (block3/digit6 = handbrake so thats correct)

Then I push the central console button to close the roof, which stalls with the lid a few inches open:
---------01101110 01101010 00000100 1100 (group 2: 00000 00111111)

then pull the central console button to close the lid back in (otherwise I can't open the lid, the hydraulics seem to block), up till the lid clicks back in:
---------10101110 10101010 00000100 1100 (group 2: 00000 00000000)

then try the boot, which against my expectation still opens. Then it reads:
---------10100010 10101010 00000100 1100

Then I fold the roof back up / closed manualy:
---------00111111 00100101 00000100 1100 (group 2: 00000 00000000)

Then, I when I press the latches a little but (very hard to reach now), it surprisingly gives this:
---------10111111 10100101 00000100 1100 (group 2: 00000 00000000)

Which is closer to what I'm after, could it mean that the latches don't close enough in the automatic system? Or is it irrelevant that block1/digit 1 & 5 are off?

One other question, could it be necessary to reset the Roof ECU, and if so how?

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

By the way, I did another fault code test, which has 2 different faults from the test a week ago.

5 Faults Found:
01089 - Switch for Tensioning Strut Stowed (F204)
25-00 - Unknown Switch Condition
01100 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
27-00 - Please Register/Activate
(Luggage Compartment Switch (Unlked)?)
01112 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
28-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
(01112 Actuator Motor 1 and 2 Power Supply?)
01107 - Convertible Top Locked Indicator Light (K98)
36-10 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00271 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

So now I have 01112 and 01107, instead of 01111 and 00258 last week - otherwise it's the same. Altogether very frustrating..
The only things I have come to be sure of after two weeks of fiddling, that the V53 boot lock sometimes gives an error in block 1 / bit 5 and 6 (saying it's both open as well as closed), and that the compartment cover latches sometimes don't close (block 1 / bit 1 and block 2 / bit 1) - this irregularity is very frustrating, and don't really have a clue where to look next.
Any hints / ideas are greatly welcomed..

Still wondering if I need to reset the roof ECU, also as Fast28's fault reading decoding mentions: "Interrogate fault memory " and "Erase fault memory ", should I, and how?

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

I'm not sure if it's 100% correct, but here my understanding of which Switch connects to which Bit:

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Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

I already removed and opened the boot lock motor V53 it but wanted to be sure it's the right way. As mentioned on http://www.audicabrio.info/co/printthread.php?tid=18508

I measured a connection between 1 and 2 with the arm pulled out, and a connection between 1 and 4 with the arm pushed in.
3, 5 and 6 are at all times connected.
Is this correct or should I test the actual motor, e.g. put 12v on it on the bench to see if it works? (Not sure how)

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

As CCV6 mentioned to look for broken cables, I found this loose plug behind the back seat:

and this one in the boot lid:

Having said that, the roof did work when I bought it, and very unlikely someone has been under the back seat. (only chance is during the refitting of the back window)

Also, on each side tucked on the tensioning bow there are two springs with nothing connected - one has a bit of string that doesn't go anywhere - are they crucial in the system, or just to keep the fabric tight?:

Again apologies to keep posting like the royal mail, if you'd prefer a summary let me know.
My main questions are:
-Should I start cutting up the looms under the roof to check for breakages (looks unlikely)?
-Can I reset the roof controller, and can I test if this is broken?
-how can I fully test the boot lock motor v53?
-what does it mean that I have issues with the v53 and the tensioning bows, but not all the time?
-with so many different intermittent issues, should I actually give up, tear the roof off and move somewhere where the sun does shine?

Thanks again

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:44 pm

I would take my time and methodically check things.

For example whats the story with the hand brake switch? Is it good or bad?

Don't cut anything, and dont remove the roof. Use the VAG-COM and a meter to check the cables and switches one by one.

The post is jumping all over the place so its difficult to see the wood for the trees. I've stopped trying to work it out.

There should be enough info now for you to work it out from your end. Just take your time. Reset the error codes and start at the begining again checking each stage with the measuring blocks. Soon as there is an error in one of the measuring blocks fix that problem first.

Colin.

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

Thanks Colin and sorry to do your head in...
Thought to give as much info as possible but looking up it indeed got rather foresty.

Sorry about the Handbrake and Console button question, thought that was clear from the diagram above that there is (apart from the occasional F200) just one problem left in the start up stage - the 5th and 6th digit - v53 - being either 0 0 or 1 1, both in running the cycle as well as when I push in or pull out the lock manually.

I finally grasped what you meant with resetting the error codes (in VAGCOM) and am now getting one (which matches the above):

1 Fault Found:

01111 - Luggage Comp. Lock Actuator Motor 1

28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

So still pointing to the v53 - I took it apart again but looks clean as a whistle, although the Measurings are as I posted not quite what I expected but well..
Perhaps I should try and find one and take it from there. I suppose it will mean hunting down car salvage places, if anyone has one spare I'd love to hear.

Anyway many thanks again for your help CCV6! Couldn't have come this far without you - where is that button to send a virtual pint? Smile

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

Hi,

I've worked out some more things and think I'm quite certain that the v53 Boot lock motor is actually not the problem.

I've taken off the Boot lock motor, and when I in that loose plug short pins 6 - 1 (as if boot lock motor Open), VAG COM gives me 10110011.
Then, when I short 6 - 2, VAG COM gives me 10111111 (as if boot lock motor Locked).
If I then short nothing, it again gives me 10110011

So that are the same faulty measurements that earlier pointed to a broken Boot lock motor, both indicating that the ECU reads the Boot lock motor being Opened = yes (bit 5) and Closed = yes (bit 6) at the same time.

That confirms that the problem is not in the Boot lock motor, right?

I've also checked v53 on the bench once again, which looks very much like it should:

I've checked the cable again, and there are definitely no connections missing between any of the 6 pins in the plug that connects to the boot lock motor:

v53------j256

1--------B14 = ok
2--------B13 = ok
3--------D2 = ok
4--------D10 = ok
5--------D9 = ok
6

However, with the power on, and measuring in the plug that should connect to the Boot lock motor, I do measure pin 1 and 2 to be shorting

If I measure the same pins on the ECU, (B13 and B14), there is no short.

Could anyone advise me if this means my ECU has lost it, or if there are any other ways there could be shorts in the cable anyway?

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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:36 pm

We will have to throw a party when this one is solved Laughing

Doubt the ECU has lost it...its still talking to the VAG-COM. The ECU are fairly robust. Have you checked the wires end to end from the ECU to the boot? Know it difficult to rig up a test but broken wires seem to be the most common cause. You could test at the ECU end and watch how the VAG-COM changes.

Regard the codes you quoted not sure what opening stage you were at when you took the measurements. I assume its stage 1. If not there are issues in Block 4 and 8 as well as 5 and 6

You_ xx - 10111111
You_ xx - 10110011
Stage 01 - 10111011
Stage 02 - 10101011
Stage 03 - 10101010
Stage 04 - 10101010
Stage 05 - 10101010
Stage 06 - 01100110
Stage 07 - 01000110
Stage 08 - 01000110
Stage 09 - 01000110
Stage 10 - 01000110
Stage 11 - 01100110
Stage 12 - 10101010
Stage 13 - 10101010
Stage 14 - 10101010

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:50 pm

Pin numbers have now lost me slightly, but think your shorting the right ones.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:07 pm

The only explaination I can see is that you have two wires wire into one. Can you recheck the wiring that you did on the boot harness.

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

If you mean the 6 (or actually 5 of 6 that run to the boot) - yes, doublechecked. No shorts between any, and all make a clean through connection where they should.

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:42 pm

With the V53 unplugged and using a wire to short between the correct terminals can you get the right readings on VAG-COM? i.e terminal 6 to 1 and then 6 to 2.

Do the same at the ECU end B14 to earth and then B13 to earth.

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

Hi,

Unfortunately no, I got the same Wrong VAG COM measurements when I unplug the v53, and short the lines inside the plug that the v53 would normally be shorting - meaning when I short pins 6 - 1 (in an ideal world indicating: boot lock motor Open), VAG COM gives me 10110011, and when I short 6 - 2, VAG COM gives me 10111111 (as if boot lock motor Locked).

So that are the same faulty measurements as the v53 motor gives; both indicating that the ECU reads the Boot lock motor being Opened = yes (bit 5) and Closed = yes (bit 6) at the same time.

I haven't yet shorted them at the ECU - as that would mean I would need to cut off the cables at Pin B13 and B14 at the Plug that goes into the ECU - and I've been slightly hesitant about that so far, as somehow I got the feeling the short (or other issue) is in a lower level.
But maybe I should?
Thanks!

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:25 pm

I would not cut the cable I would just use a thin pin poked into each socket (or even the cable as close to the ECU as possible) and then short.

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

You mean on the pins of the ECU? I've done that, definitely no short between B13 B14 or any of the pins.

So no short in the cable, and no short on the ECU. The short is only there when the ECU is active.

Even though I suppose VAG COM is there to prevent this, could it be that the short is somewhere completely different, and ends up in the B13 and B14 when the ECU is active?

Also, seems completely illogic, but could it be that there is something wrong on pin 6 of the v53?

Anyone ever heard of a way of checking the ECU?

Thanks!

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:00 am

No No.. make a short to simulate the switch closing and see if it reads it in VAG-COM. That way you can test the ECU and confirm its working and nothing to do with bad wiring.

So to repeat.. simulate microswitch V53 opening and closing (Block 5 and 6).Do this as close as possible to the terminal at the ECU. You will need to leave the ECU plugged in and use a needle (pin) to get access to the wire or plug throught the insulation.

And remember its between the terminal and earth not terminal to terminal i.e B14 to earth, then B13 to earth. The vag-com blocks should go 01 and then 10 (or the other way round) not 11 or 00.

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 01, 2011 Posts: 49

Ok, I actually took the B plug on the ECU apart and made a short from earth first straight to B13, and then straight to B14 - readings are exactly as before: xxxx00xx and xxxx11xx.
Does that finally conclude my ECU is gone?

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:12 am

Were the rest of the plugs plugged in to the ECU?

Have to admit that I am scratching my head now.

I would of thought that if the ECU was bad it would not work at all (or even talk to the VAG-COM). Also doubt they could be reprogrammed.

This is a long shot ...can you check the part number of the ECU just incase someone has swapped the ECU in the past for a manual roof ECU when trying to fix the problem.

I note that on the cabrio web site the codes for the manual roof are 11.
http://www.audicabrio.info/support/index.php?action=artikel&cat=31&id=184&artlang=de

I am away to St Andrews this weekend (in the cab Cool

) ...but when I get back I will check my measuring blocks to see what it is doing just in case the info on the cabrio web site is duff.

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:32 pm

Looking again at the cabrio web site think the advice above is probably a bum steer. If it was the wrong ECU it would have stopped well before you get to stage 6.

Anyway

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8G0 959 255 for hydraulic roofs