Not so Happy Daze

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:19 pm

I'm now the owner of the 80 quattro avant that Nogin and co converted from v6 to 7a power. See the work here - http://www.audi-20v.co.uk/myquattro5.htm

In the 2 weeks I've had the car it's had a new power steering pump, spark plugs, rotor arm and a distibutor cap.

Power steering pump was leaking when I bought it so just put good used one on I had lying around.

The spark plugs etc were put on to try and cure a starting issue. it didn't work.

When cold the car will turn over a few times before it catches then dies. a few repeated attempts at this gets it running though albeit very reluctantly. When warmed up it turns over for ages before starting. Once started when warm it idles fine.

The car seems down on power. It stinks of petrol when warmed up. It also seems reluctant to rev back up after changing gear.

I've also noticed that a few times when trying to start the car it seems to stop like the starter has jammed or something. When this happens the engine feels like it's rattling around the engine bay !

Any help with these problems will be much appreciated.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:00 pm

I seem to remember that this car had similar problems with the engine I blew up after just 2 hours. Laughing

I think there was some talk then of the fuel lines getting too hot as they were maybe on the opposite sides from the V6/I5.

In my very short experience there was also an awful stench of fuel which I put down to the fact the engine was about to give up on me. In the set up of the first 7A used I did notice the crankcase breather was not back into the air manifold, i.e. just a vent under the bonnet. If any fuel is getting past the rings then this would likely cause something like this to happen. Not sure if it is set up like this still with the new unit.

Is is running rich?

The old unit would not idle when cold but that might just have been the first (and only) time I had started in the cold Laughing

I.e. had to catch it on the throttle when I picked it up.

Best of luck with the car and hopefully you get these wee niggles sorted and very glad it lives on.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:23 pm

Cheers for that, interesting to know it would not idle before.

Little update.

Sucking on the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line and it holds vacuum against your tongue.

Removed the fuel rail complete with injectors, they do not appear to leak, cranking the engine over with the injectors spraying into cups and they all seem to spray fuel, and a similar quantity.

Fitted another fpr anyway.

If the isv is unplugged the car dies.

The throttle switch clicks, and the idle changes if it is unplugged.

Checked timing, flywheel, cam, crank pulley all line up, dizzy points to 1.

It is strange as sometimes it fires straight up perfectly, sometimes not.

Car is also running an atmospheric vent catch tank. There is also a blow from the exhaust at the downpipe.

A brief history

Car was converted from v6 to 7a, the 7a then died (catastrophic bearing failure), another 7a engine was swapped in.

The fpr, alternator, ps pump, dizzy, flywheel, throttle body were removed from the dead engine and fitted to the new. The throttle body has since been replaced with another as it has a chunk missing from the bit that goes into the intake boot.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:37 pm

Probably would be good to speak to Owen on here as well, as he has probably the most experience of actually running the car!

Hope it is going well.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:14 pm

Rnadom thought, what about the fuel pump relay?? If it is a bad connection or relay it could cause poor starting/cutting out.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:43 pm

I've not long been out and stuck a fuse on the fuel pump relay. Seemingly it sets the engine to some sort of standard settings. It fired up and run. This problem I'm having is a wee bit intermittent so not totally surprised by this.
I have a spare fuel pump relay so will swap about just to rule that part out at least.

I did notice when I was out the back that the central locking is now working erse for elbow. I'm hoping Andrew or myself have knocked something loose and it's an easy fix.

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:06 am

you can bridge out the fuel pump relay by using the Z connector and the fuse you put in the relay is used for diagnostics

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:00 pm

Central locking is probably a loose connection on the pump. Not sure where it is on the avant but will be in the boot area somewhere. They are bad for going as well.

Infact, if you remove the central locking pump on a later 80 does the car start?? I have a funny fealing they don't so maybe even be related.

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:15 pm

That's for diagnostic mode - the 7A shouldn't run with a fuse in the FPR.

I'd suspect a fuel pressure or vaporisation issue.

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:52 pm

Is that shouldn't run or shouldn't be run with a fuse in the fpr ?

It did run. Is that normal ?

I'm begining to think of fuel issue myself. Only thing that's not been touched yet is the tank to engine side of things.

Only other thing bothering me is the fact that the settings might have been played with for emmisions at the MOT. It cuts right out if you unplug the ISV.

EDIT - Spark plugs were very sooty when inspected today. These were new plugs fitted last week and I've only driven the car for a few miles and had it started out the back.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:31 pm

I found this and thought it was an easy thing to change before my tea - http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20985.phtml

I disconnected the battery for 10 mins whilst I was fitting the new g62 sensor. I'd swear it fired up easier from cold. I let it get up to full temperature then turned it off and tried a restart, it fired first time ! It done this a few times so I left it and went in to eat.

It was reluctant to start when I came back out but did eventually even without me touching the pedal.

Still having the starter jamming type scenario and it's not helping.

Needs to get out more Joined: Mar 02, 2011 Posts: 113

Assume you're tried the obvious stuff, like checking for a blocked air filter?

I don't know the 5 cylinder lump well, but if it's running very rich I'd be looking at the coolant temp sensor (not sure if that's the G62 sensor that you mention) as the bosch ones tend to tell the ECU that it's -40C if they fail.

Does the management have diagnostics built in - any fault codes?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:59 pm

Car has nice new air filter, old one that come out looked like new but at least I ruled that out.

I fitted a good used g62 sensor before my tea tonight, it seemed to make a bit of a difference. I'm going to check the wiring to it tomorrow though.

Haven't pulled codes yet. For some reason it's never the first thing I do Rolling Eyes

I got a code reader from Andy10v so I'm going to try that tomorrow.

I meant to say earlier that once the car warmed up it still had the same delay in the throttle it doesn't have when it's cold or before full operating temperature.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:53 pm

I got a shot of a wee Gunsons code reader from Andy10v.

I got -

1231 vehicle speed sensor

2123 throttle position sensor, full

2312 coolant temp sensor

I also got 1212 and 3121 ?

I can't find these codes mentioned anywhere so I'm assuming I've misread the blinking LED.

Needs to get out more Joined: Mar 02, 2011 Posts: 113

Were you able to clear the codes and see if they came back, or is it a reader only?

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:12 pm

Think if you pull the battery off for a while it will clear them. My S6 is certainly like that.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:48 pm

I meant to say I pulled the battery for 15mins before taking it for a run. I got these codes when I come back from the run.

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:13 pm

Different speed sensor fitted. The one on the car was split about halfway and showing showing cable.

Different throttle switch fitted. Old one did look a bit toasted when removed.

Tested the g62 I'd fitted. I'ts fine. Fitted new connection to wiring as old one wasn't too clever.

Pulled big wiring plug from ecu and found a few bare wires so tidied that up a bit.

I found a vacuum hose down beside the ecu. Was this from the v6 ecu and the 7a ecu doesn't need it or should it be plugged in somewhere ?

I'm away out for a wee run and will try for codes (with the engine running) when I'm back. Fngers crossed.

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:50 pm

I'm only getting 1 code tonight.

2232 - air mass sensor

Needs to get out more Joined: Mar 02, 2011 Posts: 113

Is it running any better, with all the repairs you've done so far?

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:58 pm

It ticks over like a wee sweetie now Laughing

It wasn't too keen to rev very far under load. I'll get another MAF on there and get the codes cleared and see how it goes.

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:22 pm

The fault code reader lives ! It was a blown fuse in the car that was causing it.

It's been for a few runs today so I pulled the codes earlier. Battery hasn't been disconnected since fitting spare MAF.

I got 2232 MAF
2242 MAF pot
4431 ISV

I checked the MAF wiring and got all readings to spec.

I disconnected the battery and went for a cuppa. Reconnected battery and went for a drive around the back roads.

I read the codes and got all the 4's so no more fault codes.

The car starts and idles fine when hot or cold now. Drives really nice on part throttle but still doesn't like being under load or revving much. Still bogs down after changing gear.

I'm thinking about doing the lambda probe tomorrow and then check the knock sensors if that doesn't work.

Needs to get out more Joined: Mar 02, 2011 Posts: 113

Is the car running a cat?

Have you had an exhaust sniffer up it, to see what the fuelling is doing?

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:37 pm

Sounds like you are making progress. Well done!

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:38 pm

Sounds like you are making progress. Well done!

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:38 pm

Sounds like you are making progress. Well done!

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:56 pm

Mike_H, The car has no cat, just a straight pipe. I might just ask my local garage if they'd give it a sniff for me Laughing

Wemyss, It is a different car now. Not 100% yet but a damn sight better ! I've got a 3b s2 gearbox and I'm going to get an s2 avant rear diff to lower the gearing back to 5 cylinder ratios. After I've got it running of course.