7A 20v head rebuild

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:31 pm

Some of you may know from previous posts that I'm rebuilding the head on my 20v Coupe.
I've now got to the stage where I've removed the head - nightmare in itself as anyone who has tried to remove the exhaust manifold nuts with the engine in situ will know. Only room for a 12mm ring spanner on the last one!
IanW kindly lent me some tools and we got the b@st@rd 350Nm torque crankshaft bolt off ok. When I finally removed the head, the gasket wasn't broken itself (as I thought it might be), but the waterways were clogged.
What I'd like to know is should I return the standard head set I've got (Reinz) to ECP and get an oversized head gasket if I'm getting it skimmed?
Some people say no, some say definitely yes.
I'm definitely changing the water pump and timing belt as a matter of course and also the head bolts, even though I'm not sure the head has been off in 164k miles.
Any suggestions/comments welcome,
Thanks
Barney

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:00 pm

If the head has got 164K on it are you not getting the valve stem/guides checked for wear ??

just a thought

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 24, 2003 Posts: 75 Location: england

hi,you should,nt skim any vw/audi head you are only allowed a slight facing off,if the head is distorted replace it.you engine is already high compresion in creases it further.you can get it to run better if you use optimax fuel only or the highest grade super u/leaded you can get,while you,ve got the head off check/replace your core plugs they are easy to get at.the reinz gasket were original fitment as were geotze perfectly ok to use....tim cooper.green s2 avant.

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:45 am

Sorry Levi, forgot to mention I'm planning on replacing guides and stem seals too as it was smoking slightly.
Cheers

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:36 pm

After a week of inactivity on my 20v Coupe due to work pressures, I'm half way through stripping the valves out and want to send it to my local engine shop to pressure test it.
However, I'm a bit concerned that I might not find the cause of the overheating and once I've had it skimmed and got the engine back together it may not be the end of it!
I'll keep this short, but basically the main rad blew and had to be replaced, the car then ran out of water and cooked the head gasket - or so I thought. The gasket isn't broken though it does look brown around the edges of the cylinder holes (ie not silver shiny all round as I was advised it should be) so am I missing another cause??? What do I do after paying £90 to get the head skimmed? The waterways on the head were quite gummed up.
I'm changing most things like water pump, timing belt, stem seals, but leaving head bolts (stretch type) and guides (seem to be tight).
Any advice on other symptoms/causes of overheating welcomed.
Cheers
Barney
p.s. Gavs20v - could you email your mobile no. pls?

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:21 pm

Sounds like the you may have found out your problem, if the water ways were gummed up, badly. Give the bottom end a clean out too, as a good flow of water around the engine is a needed. Are you putting a new rad little front radiator on ? Have you checked the floe throught it? These engines do run quite hot and you need to have a good set of rads in one. Also make sure that your fan switch is working.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:18 pm

Thanx Levi. The new main rad has only been used for 5-10 mins as this is when we realised that just replacing the rad wasn't enough, and that the head had been cooked. The little front rad is about 6 months old. I'll flush out both well to make sure there's good flow. I'm going to get good antifreeze too (G12+) as I'm sure that might be a factor.
How do I clean out the block? Just wipe out the gunge? I'm presuming (or hoping) the block won't be cracked as they're known to be tough. The pistons and linings don't look that scored, which is great after 164k, neither do the valves so would you replace valves as a precaution or not?
Cheers.
p.s. does anyone have an air-con rad they want to get rid of?

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:33 pm

Also ... sorry forgot to ask... Does anyone recommend changing the little cam chain between the cams? Car has done 164k.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:30 pm

Flush it throught using a hose pipe or small jet wash throught the water ways (not letting any water get into the engine). May be the jet wash would be more appropriate when the engine has its head back on ? You could always try sticking a bit of rad flush in the block too.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:15 am

Hi Barney,
Glad to hear that things are going OK Smile

.
Given the overheating, I hope you're going to change the thermostat? Besides, should be a real doddle with the head off.
As for cleaning the block, I got mine hot-tanked while it was out, but otherwise I would use one of the heavy duty 'Rad Flush' products - preferably the three part cleaners.
For the timing chain - it's probably OK, mostly they just seem to get a bit noisy rather than actually break. On the other hand, I vaguely recall that they're not expensive. You might want to check with Vagparts - if it's only a tenner, it's probably worth it for the peace of mind.
Ian.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:30 am

Thanks Levi and Ian for the advice. Yes I'm definitely changing the thermostat too! Bills are mounting up here but I guess it's all preventative and for peace of mind as you say Ian.
I'll find out about the cam chain and I'll use rad flush on the block. The engine is still in the car so might be tricky!
I noticed that the exhaust valves move around a little in the head - so new guides are required I think. Seemed to move more on exhaust side than inlet. Stem seals were quite brittle too so no wonder it was using oil!
Cheers - will keep you updated.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:42 pm

Just got a call from the engine shop who are pressure testing the head for me, and there's a big crack in it.
Does anyone have/know of contacts for a replacement (with reasonably low mileage) cylinder head for my 20v? I know of TSR, All Audi and VW/Audi Breakers in Swindon.
Any help appreciated.
07813 840804 eves/weekends.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:02 pm

Sorry to hear about you head, I guess you fond out what the problem was with the head then. Shocked

here a few links from my book marks

http://www.audispares.com
http://www.vw-audi-specialists.co.uk
http://www.vwaudibreakers.co.uk
http://www.vwandaudipartsuk.com/

I was at a audi breakers in newcastle last year and they had a 20v engine in stock but they wanted 350 notes for it and i am not sure if it is still there, if needed i can dig out a tel. number for them.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:51 pm

My apologies if they duplicate any on Levi's list:

Audi spares 01328 838295
Just VW Audi 01728 833600
VW Audi Breakers 01225 792900
Audi Spares 01525 210978
Audi Autos 01782 202474
The Audi Shop 01405 816661

If you have no objection to a repaired head, then a quick look through the ads at the back of e.g. Practical Classic may list someone who can weld up the crack.

Ian.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:10 pm

And we all know of a certain 'off road' coupe 20v who's engine may become available soon Cool

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:48 pm

yeah....pembo may need the money to pay for an RS2 he is currently drooling over (ex press car, Nog blue, history, correct tweaks, all history, peanuts money- as per pembo usual jammy git....)

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:47 pm

also try www.allaudi.co.uk or Tim at www.centralvwaudi.co.uk

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:11 pm

Spoke to pembo tonight on the way home- he is away from a computer ntil early next week I think, BUT he knows of three up for grabs- call him on his mobile.

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:56 pm

Thought he'd be selling his whole engine . Or is he keeping that as a back Very Happy

up in case the AAN self destructs ?

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:58 pm

Thanx for your help chaps.
Results so far... engineering firm say head is cracked around the valve seats and might be repairable. I'm picking it up later today.
I've contacted a few people... 2nd hand prices range from £200+del 30 days warranty to £400 (Vagsport.co.uk - from 76k car with 12 months warranty)! Repair bills estimates go from £300 to £500 at the moment.
Oh and I'm still tempted by TSR Pack C head but need the bank manager for that... thank God for my trusty Jetta I'm using as a runaround!
Just hope it's worth it in the end!
Cheers

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:38 pm

Get the TSR A pack. ( u can't fit bigger valves in the 20v head as far as i know!

go on you know you want to Wink

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:33 pm

Yeh, ok I can see why you probably can't fit bigger valves in! Pack A here I come... I wish.
Got Tim at Central VW Audi looking into a complete rebuilt head for me. How do I get hold of Pembo? Do you have his mobile? I'll send him a pm I guess.... doooh.