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Gez110
Audi Nut



Joined: Dec 01, 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hi,

Its my first Audi and it needs a bit of work. Only done 135,000 but hasn't been serviced for some time. So cambelt, tensioners, water pump, fuel pump belts etc top of the list along with filters and other fluids. It drives well but is some what slower than my Leon cupra.

I've got a haynes manul on order, does it give a good description for the cambelt change? Its currently sat on Audi 18inch rims and is doing a great impression of a 4x4!!!

I've also found a complete A6 avant in the same colour in my local yard, bonus!!

Cheers

Gez
 
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BladeRunner
Sadly no longer with us- RIP



Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 1257
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:12 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Welcome Smile

Your engine is AAT 115hp (engine code on side of block near thermostat), AEL 140 hp is same in A6 apart from injectors, ECU (just chips I think) and pistons (forged in AEL, cast in AAT)

So basically anything you read for AEL also applies to your AAT

Read THIS

and also THIS

both may save you money, knowledge is power as they say Cool

Cambelt while not difficult is involved and requires some degree of knowledge, special tooling, and vag com to time up correctly.

Important info in THIS thread with images, (about 3/4 down first page). Haynes is pretty good but doesn't go into the vag com details..... just says go to dealer

Note vibration damper bolt torque 220nm + 270 (it's unbelievable when you do it)

some images of belt swap & other tools used...

Engine set at TDC piston1 (using marks on flywheel detailed in above link), with cam set using special tool in rear slot




Crank holding tool, this is for S6 5cyl petrol turbo, so although it fits the pulley, it wont bolt to the block as it dose on the petrol. I plan to modify it so it can be fixed but so it is still usable for the petrol's as well. you can see my platform of steel copper and aluminium that did the job. notice the paint marks showing before and after the degree tightening



Lastly THIS thread goes into detail about dynamic timing with vag com related to cold starting, and pump duty cycle..

Now who's wishing they hadn't asked? Laughing

_________________


I Have Genuine Vag Com Hex Can 2+2, Vag Tacho & Snap-on Modis latest software 
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Gez110
Audi Nut



Joined: Dec 01, 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:39 pm Reply with quote Back to top

BladeRunner wrote:
Welcome Smile

Your engine is AAT 115hp (engine code on side of block near thermostat), AEL 140 hp is same in A6 apart from injectors, ECU (just chips I think) and pistons (forged in AEL, cast in AAT)

So basically anything you read for AEL also applies to your AAT

Read THIS

and also THIS

both may save you money, knowledge is power as they say Cool

Cambelt while not difficult is involved and requires some degree of knowledge, special tooling, and vag com to time up correctly.

Important info in THIS thread with images, (about 3/4 down first page). Haynes is pretty good but doesn't go into the vag com details..... just says go to dealer

Note vibration damper bolt torque 220nm + 270 (it's unbelievable when you do it)

some images of belt swap & other <a>tools</a> used...

Engine set at TDC piston1 (using marks on flywheel detailed in above link), with cam set using special <a>tool</a> in rear slot




Crank holding <a>tool</a>, this is for S6 5cyl petrol turbo, so although it fits the pulley, it wont bolt to the block as it dose on the petrol. I plan to modify it so it can be fixed but so it is still usable for the petrol's as well. you can see my platform of steel copper and aluminium that did the job. notice the paint marks showing before and after the degree tightening



Lastly THIS thread goes into detail about dynamic timing with vag com related to cold starting, and pump duty cycle..

Now who's wishing they hadn't asked? Laughing


Blimey!!! I've done a few belt changes on 4 pot vag engines (16valve KR's) and alfa boxer's but this seems a whole heep more complicated. Can you recommend a decent indy that could do the job for reasonable money, my local one has quoted 425inc, which is half the value of the car. I'm not far from you, just the other (wrong side) of the peaks so any others you know of would be great. Its the main family car (or will be once I sell our Leon) so I can't have it in bits for any great length of time.

If I do go for it myself what parts should I replace while it in bits. I was planning on doing the following

Cambelt
Cambelt tensioner/idler
Fuel pumps belt
Water pump & thermostat

Can you buy the special locking tools anywere other than Audi? And could I drive it once the belts changed to my local VAG specialist and get them to adjust the timing on VAG com.

Massive thanks for the detailed response, very helpfull if a little unnerving!!
 
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BladeRunner
Sadly no longer with us- RIP



Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 1257
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Personally for this job considering how important it is to the life of the engine I'd only recommend genuine parts. but non genuine will be a bit cheaper.

If you are keeping the car the absolute minimum IMO would be:-

Cambelt 26
Tensioner & bolt 30
Vibration Damper bolt 8
Waterpump exchange 55
Pump belt 28

total 147

If the vibration damper shows signs of delaminating it will need replacing, and also the two pump belt tensioners, (at about 38 each), but they can be re-used if they are smooth and play free.

latest revision vibration damper is only available from audi at present and is 135

Prices are inc vat TPS audi trade and are off the top of my head so may not be exact, but are near as I've only just done a saloon.

I doubt the place that quoted you will use most if not any above in their quote, just non genuine cambelt tensioner & waterpump if you are lucky.

The job is quite involved, (will take a full day to do properly), and to do it the front needs to come off (not as bad as it looks), it needs to be fully warmed up when finished to do the dynamic timing, (quite hard at this time of year), and then it really needs checking / re-adjusting a month or so later.

You'll also need coolant, G12 ideally, but you can use cheaper blue stuff, and as they have to come out it's worth testing / replacing the glow plugs too, together with the ancillary belt.

A few questions does your car start well from cold? do you get any squeak, chirp, or squeal from the engine, (ancillary belt area) when turning off? does it have A/C?

I used to have a garage but packed it in for a bit due to the economy / and looking after my mother in her dying stages with bone cancer. I plan to start up again in the new year at some point.

I do have all the tools to make this job plain sailing.. Where exactly are you? Pm me

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I Have Genuine Vag Com Hex Can 2+2, Vag Tacho & Snap-on Modis latest software 
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Gez110
Audi Nut



Joined: Dec 01, 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Bladerunner,

I've sent you a PM with my address and contact details, if you can help that would be great.

I 've just started the car,its been stood for 5 days, and it started easily (4th revolution). It doesn't have AC and there are no noises when I switch off although there is a slight chirp on cold start up. It idles fine.

Your right about my local indy, they are a VAG specialist but get parts from Euro car parts. Their quote included belt,water pump, tensioners and ancil belts.

Cheers

Gez
 
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artb
Needs to get out more



Joined: Nov 10, 2009
Posts: 125
Location: northants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

great pic and info there, Cool

could i just ask about the alt belt tensioner,
mine chirps every now and then, it looks old,
a spot of engine oil stops it for a while,
are they repairable Confused
or are they expensive

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mk1 a6. 2.5tdi avant
180k mls
chipped,de-cated and lowered.... 
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BladeRunner
Sadly no longer with us- RIP



Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 1257
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

From the vibration damper TOPIC:-

Quote:
Since fitting a new vibration damper I have noticed two things. The annoying squeak when turning the engine off has gone. It was thought this was caused by a worn out ancillary belt tensioner damper and or roller as I did trace the noise to this belt by removing it, (noise went away). It seems it's something to do with the vibration damper because I had fitted a new tensioner damper & roller and still the squeak. With the new vibration damper it has gone so far and also the tensioner damper seems to be much less "lively" than it was with the old vibration damper, hardly moving with engine running on tick over where as before it was bouncing up and down alot indicating maybe my damper was out of round partly delaminating.


If your squeak or chirp is different to the above, (while it's running for instance), it could be the damper or roller, it's hard to diagnose from my PC Wink

You can try cleaning it up. The whole affair is not cheap to buy new, I think the roller & bracket was iro 160 the damper or spring unit 85.

You can get it off quite easily. don't use the lug on it to release the tension as it more than not snaps off. The easiest way is to undo the engine cover front support if fitted, (two 10mm bolts), then the three 13 mm bolts that hold the top part of the damper support to the head while pushing down on it to take the tension. You'll then need either a shortened alien key, (6mm), or 13mm socket depending on what they are, (usually alien key bolts), to remove the 3 lower bracket support bolts. There isn't much room with front slam panel there so I shortened an alien key down for the initial loosening, then use a short 6mm alien bit in a 1/4 drive ratchet spanner. the lower bolt will hit the viscous fan blade but you can carefully bend it down enough to get it past. don't drop the bolts if you have an under engine tray fitted!!

When off clean with brake cleaner or petrol as best you can and re grease the shaft of the damper, (I use a small model paint brush). The roller bearing if dry, stiff or gritty, is just a standard roller but it's riveted between two metal parts so not easy to replace. You can carefully get the bearing grease seal out using a pick tool, (dont damage them), and then flush it out with petrol / repack with LM grease and it should be much better. If it has a lot of play you'll need another.

If the ancillary belt is past it's sell-by-date you can fit a new one now. It's a bit tricky to get around the bottom pulley and make sure you note where it goes before removing the old one, (make a drawing), because it's not obvious once removed. It can be done with the engine tray on with some selective swearing & general cussing..

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I Have Genuine Vag Com Hex Can 2+2, Vag Tacho & Snap-on Modis latest software 
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artb
Needs to get out more



Joined: Nov 10, 2009
Posts: 125
Location: northants

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:56 am Reply with quote Back to top

nice one jon,
its deffo the tensioner as ya can get ya ear near to it,
and a drop of thick oil quietens it up,
it looks like its asking to come off and have a clean and grease....and yep i thought they were gonna be expensive Confused

will look at it, and ponder some more.... Laughing

cheers mate.... Very Happy

_________________
mk1 a6. 2.5tdi avant
180k mls
chipped,de-cated and lowered.... 
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BladeRunner
Sadly no longer with us- RIP



Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 1257
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

made a parts list that may help....... or scare some owners Laughing


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I Have Genuine Vag Com Hex Can 2+2, Vag Tacho & Snap-on Modis latest software 
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BladeRunner
Sadly no longer with us- RIP



Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 1257
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Edited the list to show correct superseded part numbers for a few items, and correct letter codes. This is now correct as of today, all parts ordered from TPS Chesterfield, (everything came next day). Slightly cheaper total as waterpump is now in the parts club at 29.27 + vat

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Gez110
Audi Nut



Joined: Dec 01, 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Now then,

I've been thinking, while its all in bits I may as well get it all done. The piece of mind is worth the extra cash. Talk to you soon

Cheers

Steve
 
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