Top mounts

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 10:19 pm

I'm in the process of changing top mounts on the S2. Question, how much thread of the strut should be exposed above the top mount with the new top mount in place. Reason I ask is there is no reference to this in any manual. When I put everything back together and the car is on the ground, the top plate sits about 3mm above the turret. I'm about to start the second side so would appreciate any help as the first side will likely need to be done again.

UltraUser Joined: Jan 21, 2003 Posts: 4228

Mike, with the locknut back on there should be no more than around 3or 4 mm showing. As for the top plate, on all the ones I`ve done they have all had clearance it just doesn`t show with the plastic covers in place. Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:21 pm

Thanks Loco - a bit more reassuring as that's roughly what I've got. I thought the top plate was supposed to be flush. The other side which has still to be done is about 6mm high. I was told by a garage on my last car this is how to tell if the top mount is worn. The top plate starts to rise up.

UltraUser Joined: Jan 21, 2003 Posts: 4228

Thats an interesting statement by the garage as its the bearing that gets shafted on the top mounts and would cause lateral movement. Oh well.
Wasn`t an Audi dealer was it. Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 11:09 pm

No it was a specialist who I regard highly. Both front wheel bearings supplied and fitted for £160 all in using genuine parts.

Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:18 am

I have found that the bearing breaks away from the inside of the mount causing the free play when you rock the wheel

Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 6:11 pm

The garage is talking rubbish. When the bearings go they get noisy, they dont wear away!
Is this the first change of top mounts? If so they should be identical in dimension to the one you have replaced. If not go to the agent with your chassis number and make absolutely sure you are getting the correct mount. I've been sold two two pairs of top mounts for an earlier car model than mine. I, blissfully ignorant, fitted them and then tried at considerable expense to fix a clunking noise which was caused by fitting the wrong top mounts.
Tag

Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 11:28 pm

Further update to this saga. I changed the top mounts on a friends car on Saturday. His old mounts were completely buggered. So much so that the bush had started to wear away. About 5-7mm of the old mount was missing due to rubbing on the inside of the turret - this is what pushes up the top plate so the garage are not talking rubbish - it just depends how the mounts fail.

Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:09 am

Sorry should have added this to the above.
Until I recently replaced my top mounts again but this time with the correct ones the top plates sat 5-7mm higher than they do now. The plastic caps on the top plate now sit almost touching the turret. I was given two sets of top mounts which were wrong despite refference to the chassis number.
The problem is that the early or late version of top mount will physically fit I didn't discover the mistake until the car was back on the road. I trusted the supplier who gave me the wrong mounts again and I then started looking elsewhere for the cause of the chronic clunking. I have now replaced both strut inserts and top mounts. This time the top mounts are correct and noticeably different to those replaced.
This has been a hard and expensive lesson for me but I now don't trust parts lists to be accurate even with a chassis number.
Cheers,
Tag

Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:28 am

Sorry again but I've re-read your post re your friends car. Are you certain the rubber bush has worn away or could it be that the wrong mounts had previously been fitted. The early mounts are similar in dimension to a ring doughnut and are fitted to vehicles with the one piece MacPherson strut. The later mount is taller by about 5-7mm and is fitted to later two piece struts. As you will have read I've now had both types of mount fitted. Because the later mount is taller less of the damper rod protrudes upwards so the top plate sits closer to the turret as it should.
Cheers,
Tag

Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 2:39 pm

I have been having problems with top strut mounts on a Coupe 2.3 1990. It has the later type 2 piece strut. I have changed most of the suspension and steering components on the front. The os shock absorber is shown more visible threads that the ns. The turrent plastic cap therfore sits higher. Their is definitely play on the os suspension more noticable when the car is jacked up. Their is also a knocking noise coming from the os.

I am thinking about getting 2 genuine mounts from Audi to ensure they are correct. The mounts i got are from ECP. Does anybody know of another supplier in the Edinburgh area where I could get them.

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 5:06 pm

The old mounts which I took off were original - 811 412 323 - and were totally shot after 11 years and 125k miles. So much so that they actually failed an MOT test. It's the first I've heard of top mounts being that bad.

The top cup was about 10-15mm higher with the old mounts on compared to later with the new ones on. This car was a 1992 model with the later struts.

I would not go to Euro Car Parts for top mounts. genuine VAG parts only - either from the dealer or mail order from http://www.vagparts.com

Remember to replace the locknuts

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 8:16 pm

I have now replaced the top strut mounts. I got them from Audi. They are the green ones.

Having stripped the front suspension I have found out why the strut insert was showing a different amount of threads on each side.

The Ns strut top mounting had an extra spacer on it , on close examination I have discovered this is the bottom part of the old mount which had seperated from the mounting itself.

The only problem now is trying to tighten the slotted nut which holds the strut mount against the spring seat. I know that Hazet the tool company do a special socket for this job. Does anyone know where I can locate this tool. I am in the Edinburgh area

UltraUser Joined: Jan 21, 2003 Posts: 4228

Halfords sell a Sykes Pickavant tool for the job Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 9:52 pm

I bought the VAG one - tool number VW524. Expensive for what it is. I may be prepared to let you borrow it.

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:07 am

Hi
What is the special tool for tightening the top mount 'nut' called please. I phoned my local Halfords but couldn't make myself understood.
Thanks,
Tag

UltraUser Joined: Jan 21, 2003 Posts: 4228

Its just known as a strut nut socket for VW/Audi, they also come in a set of different sizes as VAG are not exclusive to this set up.
Best go and see for yourself or order from a Sealy stockest Sealy Part no SX028 retail price is £5.45 . Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:49 pm

Sorry to butt in mid discussion, but I'm looking at having to replace the top mounts on my '94 80, they're creaking like crazy, and one rotates.. how difficult a job is it, is the procedure similar to that required to change earilier 80's models (ie as described in the Haynes Manual for the 1986-90 Audi 80)?

Confused

UltraUser Joined: Jan 21, 2003 Posts: 4228

Yes its the same job, the later models are a lot easier as you don`t have to remove the whole leg as it bolts up just above the hub Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:06 am

Thanks for that. I'm in 2 minds to try and do it myself or get the garage to do it, as one of the anti-roll bar links needs to be replaced as well. I've also just looked at the procedure on 'Mike's S2 Site', is this appicable to my 80 as well?

Thanks again...

Gordon Smile

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:21 am

Yes, the job will be similar if not exactly the same. Have a swear box handy

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:25 pm

Well I've started the job... swear box more like a swear skip, and that's before fiddling with the mounts. I can't undo the tie rod end ball joint nut, the whole thing rotates, is it meant to rotate, is it broken, or am I being plain thick...?? help much appreciated!

Gordon Confused

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:17 pm

Gordon,

I had that a couple of times. The only solution I found was to use a ball joint splitter 'upside down' - the type with three prongs and a screw thread. With the pivoted arm clamping tightly on the side of the ball joint away from the nut, it held the screw thread part tightly enough to undo the nut on top. An overnight soaking in Plus Gas may have helped. Once the 17mm?? nut is undone, turn the ball joint splitter the 'right way up' and press the track rod end out of the steering arm.

Also found that the adjusters on the track rod ends had seized, preventing the tracking being set correctly.

If you have the two hub-carrier/strut assembly, then I recently discovered that there is enough adjustment in the two hub->strut bolts to alter the camber angle of the front wheel. Next time I'll mark the relative postion before removing.

Ian.

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:51 pm

Thanks for that tip. I will try and us that technique to split it.. When I do, will the require replacing? I left them alone and continued the strut top mount replacement with them still connected, but I am now thinking I will need to change the track rod end as the strut ball joint now has slight movement.

Thanks to everyone for their advice on this job, it gave me the confidence to go ahead and 'have a go'... my Audi no longer groans and creaks like it should be in a retirement home!

Gordon. Very Happy

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:39 am

"When I do, will the ... require replacing?"

Err, not sure. What did you have in mind? I always replace lock nuts as a matter of course, especially on suspension bits. I buy them from Namrick, in 10s or 20s. Be careful - the nylocs on the track rod ends are metric-fine threads. Bizarrely, 1.25 mm pitch on one side, 1.5mm pitch on the other.

Ian.

Inexperienced Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Posts: 33 Location: UK

For future top-strut-bearing replacees:

I did mine a couple of months back (`89. 80S - all it failed it`s MOT on).

After I`d bought the replacements and taken the driver`s side strut off
I found the old one to be in near perfect condition.
I reckon that a few turns on the lock nuts could have saved me £40 quid and a day of hard labour.
(a Deep reach ring spanner and an appropriate 3/8" drive hex socket should be all that`s required).

Bit late but better than never.

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:01 pm

Thanks again for all the help... the tie rod end ball joints came back to haunt me, I left the ball joint that was moving (see earlier post) thinking I hadn't loosened the bolt, but it looks like I had moved it. When checking the car last weekend I found the wheel on that side could be moved slighlty due to tie-rod end strut movement... eerrkk! ( Embarassed

)

Anyway the tip with the ball joint cracker used to apply pressue worked really well, a most excellent tip. I checked the strut and the ball joint and they seem undamaged, it would appear that I had just loosened it, so I've put it back together (tight this time!). I've had to use the old bolt for just now as the bolt I ordered from my local Audi dealership was not correct, to coarse a pitch, another point mentioned earlier! I've ordered some correct bolts (I hope) and when they arrive I can finally put this job to bed.....

Gordon

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:32 am

And so the saga continues..... I've been running the car with new top mounts for a few months now and I have some niggling concerns as to everthing is correct...

1. The front springs creak (well the passenger side mostly), I thought it was just settling back in after being compressed when fitting the mounts, but no, it continually creaks with suspension movement.

2. I am aware of what I can only describe as muffled banging / clanking from the front of the car on undulating / uneven surfaces. I am aware of previous post where the wrong type of mount has been fitted resulting in noise, but I am unsure if this is what it is.

3. My concerns lead me to putting the car up on axle stands to do some checks like ball joints etc, these seemed ok but my attention was brought back to the mounts again. With the wheels lifted clear of the ground should the mounts have any lateral movement inside the turret? I can feel a 'click' or slight movement of the strut when moving the wheel back and forth on its steering axis as well.

Any ideas, thoughts would be much appreciated, as it sending me round the bend and I'm starting to wonder if I'm imagining it all....

Gordon Confused