Induction Kit? suitable? good idea?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:07 pm

Looking to fit a Pipercross Induction Kit (model ref PK010c) to an 1988 Audi 90 2.2e. 183k on clock.

Will fitting this have any adverse affect on the engine life? common sense says yes but the sales blurb on both K&n's and Pipercross's site suggests better filtration than originals??!?!

will mileage of car etc be an issue? just had a service with no major engine faults identified so car seems to be in fine running order.

Is this an easy mod - i'm about as useful as a marshmallow screwdriver with most things electrical but willing to give it a go if its not too difficult on the mechanical side.

any reccomendations between an aftermarket induction kit or just swiss cheesing the airbox like mentioned on www.audiclub.co.uk? has anyone done either and what were the results? don't want to waste money and time if its not really worth it.

open to any suggestions Razz

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:42 pm

Have you got a picture of it? All I could find was the one to fit the 80, and the 90 pre '86, or with cat.

Wouldn't mind seeing a photo of it fitted incorporating the metering head.

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:28 pm

As far as I can gather, you can't get an induction kit. I have spent ages trawling sites for one (not actually phoned anyone tho!). I was looking for one for my '90 2.0L. Heard of a company that made a sort of foam thing that replaces the whole of the plastic box, but can't remember who this is.
I had a look at 'roadkills' motor and 'gavs20' had cut a hole in the side. Not sure about this, as it did not look like it would breath any better and all it would do is suck in loads of hot air without some suitable heat shielding.
Will keep looking, but please post if you find something.
Si.

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

Hate being controversial but if K & N / Pipercross filters are that good, why are no manufacturers fitting them to their cars as standard.

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:36 pm

I understand your point Mike. They're certainly not as good at filtration as a paper element. Well, I say good........but what's good? Depends on your needs I suppose.

It's no secret that they let more dirt through than a paper element, that's for sure. Try running the engine with a white cloth between the filter and the intake, and you'll see the differing (is that a word? it is now...) amount of crap that gets through. Not a problem for race engines as they get stripped and rebuilt on a regular basis.

However......they can release a couple of bhp and induction kits look nicer than a plastic airbox.

And they go "Bworppp".

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

Most impressive air filter upgrade is the Nissan Skyline. I was a passenger in one and every gearchange resulted in a chirp. Sounded like a skid from the front tyres. It also results in a 30hp increase.

The thing I object to is the maintenance free claim. If anything they need more maintenance than a standard paper element due to the need to clean every 3 months.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:22 pm

Well, looks like a no go on the Pipercross idea - spoke to their sales/supprt team this afternoon and they have no knowledge on wether it will fit at all! waiting on details from them anyway but looking doubtful.

spent the best part of the day scanning the net for anything to fit this engine but come up dry. Seems it is not meant to be Sad

has anyone done the airbox mod mentioned in above? if its a no go i think i'll just settle for a new filter.....grudgingly. is there anything else possible short of major engine work to give the car more grunt?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:09 pm

Well, I'm Thinking of doing the mod (Swiss-cheese styliee). I would also like to hear fom anyone who has followed the instructions on audiclub.co.uk . I suppose if it's crap I can always wrap the box up in duck tape to get it back to standard again. I think I'll wait awhile.

You can get a filter to drop in the existing box. (K+N Part No 33-2001) They are about £40 inc V.A.T or there abouts.
Cheers
Si.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:01 pm

Would that not be one of these fancy dump valves or even the wastegate ?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:21 pm

Pipercross also do a panel filter, 30-odd quid.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:17 pm

Yeah, but you get a nice little K+N sticker with theirs to show off with (Ha!)

Newbie Joined: Jun 09, 2003 Posts: 12 Location: UK

Price - the POS filters put on most cars today are CHEAP!

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:43 am

Got a reply from pipercross this morning re the induction kit PK010c. They sent me through the instructions for the model fitting to the Audi 80 but it looks similar. If someone could check out the details they sent ( http://members.lycos.co.uk/alessiouk/mike.htm) and let me know their thoughts........ it doesn't show it fitted but gives some idea of the procedure.

Thinking of biting the bullet and getting one anyway then just making it fit Cool

..........wether it wants to or not Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:16 pm

Induction kits look and especially sound great, but in reality give little in the way of a performance boost unless you have really good heat shielding and a cold air feed. Otherswise all that will happen is that your engine will draw in more hot air instead of less cold air. Panel filters are actually quite a good compromise, right up until you have to clean and oil them, at whcih point you run the risk of getting oil on the MAF which does not allow the ECU to run the engine at full efficiency. This seems to happen most on forced inductuion cars. For this reason I use a panel filter on my large capacity normally aspirated Corrado, but have retained the paper filter on my smaller capacity turbo charged S2. I am probably fooling myself that the K and N makes a difference, but I like the extra roar I get!

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Swiss-cheesed my airbox today and fitted a Pipercross panel filter.

Dunno what the K&N sounds like, but holy dog$hit, what a racket!!! Laugh? I was nearly crying.... Shocked

BWOOOORRRPPPP!!!!!

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:21 pm

Swiss-cheesed my airbox today and fitted a Pipercross panel filter.

Dunno what the K&N sounds like, but holy dog$hit, what a racket!!! Laugh? I was nearly crying.... Shocked

BWOOOORRRPPPP!!!!!

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:24 pm

Oooops, double post. Aren't we old enough to edit our own posts?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:21 pm

I take it you are not impressed then ?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:39 pm

Impressed?

It's great!

I've a bolt-on pipercross & powerflow exhaust on my coupe. I thought that sounded sweet. 4 cylinder mind u on weber carb. But this..... Shocked

Now I really can hear the 5 cylinders sing. Now I know what all the fuss is about!

It's booked in Monday for a full Powerflow (and suspension)...god knows what it's gonna be like then. Trying to think of a word to describe it when u put ur foot down...at about 3.5k revs....it just roars!

Still haven't stopped laughing. Very Happy

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:21 pm

Any chance of an update Karlos?
How's your 'cheese box' mod working out?. Have you noticed any adverse effects?
Whats your new exhaust like? Could I be cheeky and ask you how much it was?, and what sort of service did you get from powerflow centre you went to? and what susp' set up did you go for?

Sooo many questions I know. Sorry mate.
Cheers

Si. Thumbs Up

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:40 pm

Just got home from my week up North...

Exhaust was done Monday by Sound & Styles in Bolton........Powerflow. Total cost including fitting was £300 with an upswept letterbox tailpiece. Bog standard tailpiece would've kept the price at £250.

Unfortunately the downpipe needs replacing as the flange that connects to the centre section is rusted to hell. Because of that, the tiny muffler at the front is still there, and the stainless exhaust starts from just behind it. Once the downpipe is sorted (if I can find one) then it'll be removed, and the new exhaust will be mated up to the downpipe.

Also been on a rolling road. It appears that the vacuum unit is knackered so the timing's still out by about 8°, but the metering heads in good shape so I'm happy about that.

Only running about 126bhp which the tuning guy reckoned would be due to the timing being retarded, but he didn't want to take it up anymore until the vacuum was sorted. he said something about it should be 18°, but he's set it to 10°, and when I took it in it was about 3° (and was rough as hell on pick-up). Power band is smooth, and pulls away better, but I'm still losing somewhere.

Brand new rolling road by the way, which he claims is more accurate, but everyones getting readings about 10bhp lower than they did before. Doesn't help much, but I'm not paying out £100 to get it double checked on the rolling road down here. Will get it tuned again once vacuum is sorted.

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:45 pm

Oh yeah.........service at Sound & Styles in Bolton was excellent. In my opinion, the level of service up North is much better than 'round here. The Powerflow place down here (Newport) doesn't know the meaning of the phrase 'customer service'.

They also fitted my suspension. It's the System 2 as supplied by Proven Products, link here. Bought my panel filter of them too, good quick service. Handling is much improved and it's still quite smooth, not as harsh as the Spax on the Coupe. I do need to replace the bushes though as they've seen better days.

UltraUser Joined: Jan 30, 2003 Posts: 1743

Hi Karlos, can yu give some more details ref. the system 2 suspension kit, ride quality build quality etc as ive got to change the suspension on my wifes 20v coupe and im looking at this kit as a possibilty
cheers mate
Gav

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:07 pm

It has improved handling but not to the same extent as the Spax did on the coupe. I'm sure the difference in the cars has a lot to do with it though.

However, the ride isn't as harsh as with the Spax. They claim that it improves handling without degrading the ride quality........I'm inclined to agree with it. It's dropped about 35/40mm I reckon. Just put some 16"s on today, looks well.

As for build quality....seems ok, but I'm no suspension expert. Time will tell I suppose, but I've no complaints so far.

UltraUser Joined: Jan 30, 2003 Posts: 1743

Cool, sounds good, ive ordered the kit so fingers crossed. Gonna get some pics up then lad?! You dont fancy set of 14" BBS alloys for your coupe by any chance do you? good condition with tyres £50
Will post later let you know how i get on once the kit turns up. Got everything stripped today ready for the new kit
Gav

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:18 pm

Will take some pics tomorrow and post up.

Don't talk to me about the coupe.......can you believe my bird's only gone and dinked it in a car park. Offside wing, nice little dent. Sad

Mind you, the car's hers now, so I shouldn't be mad. Well, not much anyway. Mad

Cheers for the offer of the wheels but got 2 sets for it now, thanks anyway.

What wishbone bushes are you using? Heard conflicting opinions on polyurethane. Mine are knackered on the 90.....is it an easy job to do yourself?

UltraUser Joined: Jan 30, 2003 Posts: 1743

yep very easy job, have you ever done it on the coupe? if so its exactly the same, couple of ways of doing it, but both ways you ned to remove the wishbone, ither press the old one out and the new one in or cut through the weld on the wishbone tap the old bush out , weld it back up then tap the new one in. Peice of piss!
No offence but SILLY COW!..............
Gav