Horrible grinding noise from engine (see link)- please help!

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:52 am

Hi all,

Well you guys have always come up trumps for me but here is my most urgent one yet! This noise started from my engine on the way home from work and it's quite worrying - does it sound like the water pump gone maybe, or a belt or something? Had to take the day off work because of this and the garage haven't got a spot til saturday to have a look so I'm stuck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOPC4FZDZic

your help is very much appreciated, I'm getting really fed up of this car going wrong all the time when it's had so much love (by love i include money) and care!!

Thanks guys!

Ben

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:47 am

that doesnt sound good to me Sad

the first thing that sprang to mind was: timing belt tensioner - it sounds ever so slightly like there it something rotating / wobbling touching something plastic - this would be the timing belt cover being made of plastic and the rotating bit being the tensioner. I'd be tempted to take the cover off ASAP to see if it is this as i wouldnt want to destroy my engine driving to the garage on Saturday to get it fixed... Twisted Evil

the belt also runs over the water pump so this could explain your suspicions of it being the pump.

not really a big job taking the cover off, if i recall: it is mainly an allen key and maybe a few bolts. need to remove power steering belt first i think...

Lets see what other folk on here think Smile

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:38 pm

Thanks for the reply.... snow just isn't the same without the quattro!!

I've just popped out and had another check and I'm pretty sure it's the power steering pump, noise is definitely coming from that direction and when the noise occurs the power steering unit vibrates accordingly. Going to check the fluid in a minute once I have warmed up a bit but if the fluid is ok I'm certainly not going to play about with the unit!!

Hey Ho, that's the quattro!

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:19 pm

even easier then to determine what is wrong - take the power steering belt off and see if it still makes the noise!

dont need to go anywhere in it without PAS, just start it up and you will leap with joy at having diagnosed it ... or you wont Wink

and tis dead easy to take the belt off - loosen the 17mm bolts clamping the pump to its bracket then screw the adjuster nut in (or out) till the belt slackens off. Cool

Camped on the site Joined: Jul 27, 2009 Posts: 221

Sounds like a pump to me my PAS pump sounded like that on my corrado when that was f**ked does it sound worse when you turn your steering wheel at all Confused

Try what theappliance said with the belts sounds like good advice Smile

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:50 pm

no doesn't seem to get worse when you turn the steering wheel. i'm thinking it could be the belt sipping even though when i looked it didn't seem to be, and topped up the mineral fluid so i know it's not that. so tomorrow i'll have to take the belt off as you guys suggested. and see if the noise is still there...

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:17 pm

Firstly I would want to be ultra sure it's not the cambelt and remove the cover for a look.

Does sound very much like a belt rubbing / slipping but it's bloody loud. Sad

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:14 am

maybe that's wise...the lower upper housing bolt is a right pain to get to, i keep cutting my knuckles on the radiator in front of it

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:46 pm

Well...

the good news is that I've found what it's not (the power steering)

the bad news is that I am now even more confused!

It is the alternator that is under the power steering pump isnt it? I assume you can run the car on the battery alone ( by this i mean should i now take the belt off this as i did with the power steering and see if the noise continues)?

another thought - what about the water pump, don't they make horrible noises when they die?!
Thanks

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:00 pm

sounds like a plan - removing the alternator belt will eliminate that as well. access can be a bit of a pain, i found on my CQ20v that removing the grilles in the bumper can help, i do have an S2 front bumper on mine and cant quite remember what the std bumper was like but i find on mine that going in through the front helps a lot. I think the adjuster bracket is quite clever on these, undo bolt in the centre of the toothed 'cog wheel', loosen the bolt that holds the alternator to the bracket and then you can use a spanner on the toothed cog wheel to wind the adjustment in, so the belt comes off. just make sure you get decent tension on the belt when it goes back. levering the alternator back with BIG screwdriver can help. 1cm of deflection in longest run of belt.

once that is off, power steering belt (still off?) you might as well then take the timingbelt cover off and have a look or listen. If the noise has changed with the belt cover off it could indicate the answer. Word of warning tho - CHECK THE TENSIONER IS NOT ABOUT TO FALL OFF before starting the engine. if the cover is the only thing holding it on, starting it with that missing could send if flying off and that would be bad for your valves. Crying or Very sad

never had a water pump go on this car, previous VWs had to change one and when that went it started leaking. any leaks?

I still think it might be your belt tensioner oscilating...

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:45 pm

managed to get the TB cover nuts off but it was too cold so i had to give up, icicles from the roof hurt when they fall on your head!

I think though we can be safe in assuming it is one of two things:

Belt tensioner oscillating
Water pump dead (bearing gone or whatever it is)

Although I think as this is my only car and I dont really trust myself doing big jobs I am going to have to accept partial defeat and get a quote from the garage, I just hope it is the belt tensioner otherwise itll be a costly job!

Thanks for all your help, I'll report back as to what exactly it was!

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:14 pm

Belts, tensioner and waterpump (just as well do that while it's all aprt too) aren't that bad from someone like GSF. Just need to find a reasonable priced garage that you trust to fit them for you. (Assuming it isn't the alternator)

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:13 pm

It does sound like a dead bearing in either the tensioner or the water pump.

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:53 pm

Yeah I think that's the best thing to do - buy the parts and get the garage to fit them. How many hours labour do you think would be reasonable for the garage to take over this job? 3hrs?

@type17 - i would much rather it was the tensioner!

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:04 pm

Indeed

Water pumps from GSF aren't too expensive, but the labour is probably more to fit it.

Either way, whether it's the tensioner or pump, make sure it's a Lemforder or other OEM brand that you get.

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:05 pm

The garage that our family haved used since our very first car have given me a quote of £270 which includes timing belt & tensioner, water pump, coolant and labour. I think considering the pumps are £40 and the belts/tensioner probably the same that sounds about right.... or am I wrong?

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:22 am

Sounds reasonable to me - and if it's a garage that you know and trust, that counts for a lot too.
Keep us posted! Wink

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:26 am

That sounds very reasonable and if you know and trust the garage even better Very Happy

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:22 am

ask them to make sure the water pump does NOT have the plastic impeller (2 types are provided, plastic and metal)

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:09 am

ok i've booked it in and specifically asked for the metal impeller - now i understand why lots of places online had two types and oe was more expensive than the other...

will keep you all posted - thanks for the help

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:11 pm

can't beat a bit of self diagnosis on the driveway. Cool

that quote seems pretty reasonable to me, i paid £340 for timing belt change which included waterpump and tensioner. it makes sense to do it all in one go due to the amount of dismanting (i.e labour cost) to get to them!

I know where you are coming from about the cold hampering your efforts, my car failed its MOT with corrossion on a brake pipe last week, i would have merrily done it myself but there is several inches of snow on my driveway and it isnt getting above freezing during the day. sometimes it is just wise to pay someone to help...as much as i hate paying money... for anything. Laughing

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:08 pm

i ended up with a £1380 engine rebuild on my 80 because i kept putting off having the cambelt changed and sure enough it jumped a few teeth and smashed the engine to bits Sad

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:49 am

wild noise coming from that 20v, sounds like the Alternator belt on it's last legs or a fraying cambelt, I look forward to the diagnoses from the garage Cool

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:53 pm

So... twas indeed the water pump.

£303 in the end for parts and labour changing the pump, timing belt, tensioner, coolant, and the oil pump which once they put back together found that it was leaking...and now she's back on the road the snow has all gone

Thanks for all the help and ideas!

Ben

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 pm

Good stuff, and thanks for updating us... Smile

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:34 pm

Good to hear you are back on the road... Smile

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:10 pm

piece of mind from that end of the engine now - fear not for tensioner failures, pumps going wrong etc and look forward to another 60,000k of trouble free motoring till next timing belt change! Very Happy